 Akhmed Zakayev: Chechnya is as strong as never before
The interview to the Profile, a Ukrainian weekly magazine
No 28, 17 July 2006
On the 10th of July, the FSB announced that Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev, the "Russia's state enemy number one", was killed. Basayev had claimed responsibility for the most notorious terrorist attacks in Russia over the last decade. Since 1999, when the second war in Chechnya started, it is the seventh time when Russian special services or media claim that Basayev is dead.
Bearing this in mind, Konstantin Doroshenko, Profile's deputy chief editor, asked Ahmed Zakayev, Foreign Minister of Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, to clarify the situation.
Q.: Can you confirm that Shamil Basayev is dead?
A. Zakaev: Yes, I can confirm this. Shamil Basayev was killed on the night to 10 July in Ekazhevo village, in Republic of Ingushetia.
Q.: What is your assessment of Basayev?
A. Zakaev: Shamil Basayev was an extraordinary person. He enjoyed a well-deserved authority among the Chechens and among other nations of Caucasus. Although Shamil Basayev believed he had a right to retaliate with terror for Russia's criminal methods of war, I think he shall remain in history not as a terrorist, but as a military leader and a national hero. It is too early to make conclusions now. History shall evaluate both him and the whole Chechen tragedy. But my opinion is that Shamil Basayev will take one of the most honorary places among the heroes of the Chechen nation and of the whole Caucasus.
Q.: This year, your were appointed the Foreign Minister in Ichkeria's government. What are your duties, and to whom are you responsible?
A. Zakaev: According to our Constitution, the Law on the President, and the Law on the Cabinet of Ministers, the Foreign Ministry is responsible directly to the President of Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. So, I am directly responsible to President Dokka Umarov. I was appointed Foreign Minister by his predecessor Abdul-Khalim Sadulaev.
My duties include informing the world public about the real events in Chechnya, about the real nature of the Chechen Resistance, and about the legal aspects of the problems in relations between Russian Federation and Chechen Republic. Because Chechen Republic has no diplomatic relations with another country and therefore is considered unrecognised, I have no official contacts conducted according to international protocol. However, I have unofficial contacts and meetings with many high-ranking politicians, including members of parliaments of many European countries, of the Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe, and of the European Parliament. And of course, I am open to the media, and I communicate with journalists very often.
Q.: In her book The Second Chechen War, Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya writes about disappearances of people in Chechnya. She also writes that Russian militaries sell the bodies of the killed Chechens to their relatives for ransoms. Does this remain a reality in today's Chechnya?
A. Zakaev: Surely it does. In this respect, the situation in Chechnya has not changed. The facts of disappearances, arbitrary executions, military clashes (which have intensified very much this Summer) are all confirmed both by international organisations and by Chechen structures which continue their work in Chechnya covertly. The cynical practice of selling the bodies of the killed to their relatives, introduced by the Russian militaries, still continues.
Q.: Moscow has now formed its loyal forces in Chechnya, manned with ethnical Chechens, and delegated to them many rights to conduct violence. Some analysts argue this means Chechenisation of the conflict, that the conflict has now got another, internally ethnical, dimension.
A. Zakaev: Yes, the Chechenisation of the conflict is really a Russian policy. But these efforts are absolutely counterproductive for Russia and for Russian leaders.
Today, there is no Russian population in Chechen Republic. During its expansion to Caucasus and to other places, the Russian Empire tried to assimilate these new territories by settling Russian there. The Soviet Empire also followed this basic principle of colonisation. This work took several centuries. Before the first Russian-Chechen war started in 1994, there were more than 500 thousands of Russian population in Chechnya. Today, after 12 years, it is absolutely certain that the Chechenisation is complete: the only Russians in Chechnya are occupational troops. But the occupational troops do not provide real colonisation of the territory.
As for the pro-Russian forces manned by people of Chechen nationality… You know, there is a phenomenon in nature, called defensive reaction. The Chechen nation, being small and possessing a small territory, had to work out its own defensive reaction. The so-called pro-Russian Chechens emerge every time when the Russian troops invade. They disorient the enemy and moderate his attacks. This happens naturally, so to say, at the instinctive level. Usually, the "pro-Russians" are cowardly and greedy, they want not only to survive, but also to enrich themselves by the "carrot" which Kremlin offers them. They do not deserve respect, nor even pity, because their intentions are obviously corrupt. Although, in effect, they are useful to us, I do not want to defend them.
In fact, these people do dirty but very useful work. Even Ramzan Kadyrov proved to be tactically useful. Until Russia withdraws its forces from Chechnya, she has to pay money to its puppet government in the occupied republic, let alone all the social benefits, salaries, etc. In general, this is a great help to the Chechen nation today.
It would be a gross exaggeration to say that Kadyrov or other collaborators are getting stronger. Inside Chechnya, the situation is very much controlled by the Chechens.
If Russia did not start the Chechenisation campaign, if it continued its old line – that all the Chechens are enemies and should be destroyed – Russians would probably manage to destroy all the Chechens. It would be impossible for us to oppose this huge machine, which cares neither about its losses and casualties nor about the enemy's, and for which its own citizens' lives mean nothing.
But now, thanks to the Kremlin's current policy, we have managed to legalise more than three thousands of Chechen Resistance fighters in the last six or seven years. They are now in all those "pro-Russian" forces which you are talking about. The only exception are the death squads which act inside the structures of Russian military intelligence (GRU).
As for the Chechen militia, its current position is exactly what the Chechen Resistance needs, while our government is in the underground. It would be very difficult for us to continue resistance in Chechen Republic if not for these troops, which are financed and legalised by Russia. 14,5 thousands of square kilometres of Chechnya is a tiny territory, where more than 200 thousands of Russian troops are concentrated.
Yet, today the Chechen Resistance is in a better position than Russian troops. Those whom Russia has to trust and support – the "power structures in Chechnya" – also work for the Chechen Resistance very professionally. If not for these forces, we would not be able to move in the country, to plan military operations, nor even to stay inside Chechnya till now. But today, the Chechen Resistance is not getting weaker. On the contrary, it is getting stronger. Thus, other regions, other republics are also getting involved in the conflict.
In this sense, I do not share the opinion that the Chechenisation helps to conclude the suppression of the Chechens. On the contrary, we have managed to take the situation under control, to much extent exactly because there are Chechens in the "power structures" now.
"Disarmament of the Chechens" was the main slogan of Russia in the beginning of the war – both of the first and the second ones. Today, Chechnya is as strong and well-armed as never before. These are Russians who, unintentionally, provide our Armed Forces with a lot of weapons. Today the Chechens are really able to control the situation in the republic. This cannot be changed, even if the politicians' approaches to this problem change.
In the first years of war, the Chechen resistance had to restrict its attacks on Russian military troops which moved across the republic. We knew that Russians would retaliate against the civilian population. If there was a battle near some village or town, the Russian troops would retaliate with very cruel "zachistkas" (cleansing operations), and destroy a lot of civilians. But now they are very restricted in that, because there is Chechen militia practically in every village, and it does not allow the Russian troops to conduct "zachistkas" at that scale.
Of course, in the lowland territories and in the cities, Russian services still can kidnap people, torture them, and demand ransom for them. But the highlands in Chechnya are not controlled by Russia at all.
Q.: Many experts think that, after President Aslan Maskhadov was killed in March 2005, the influence of terrorists and Islamic fundamentalists grows among the forces which resist the federal authorities in Chechnya. Allegedly, people who collaborate with federal forces are being intimidated and killed in Chechnya's highlands. Is any political process possible while the terror continues?
A. Zakaev: First of all, as we have always stated and still state, this conflict has no military solution. We do not change this position. I agree that no political solution is possible while the violence continues. But everything depends, and has always depended, on the political will of Russia. As I've said many times before, beginning and finishing wars is exclusively Russia's prerogative. The situation is still the same. All these problems can be solved only if there is political will to do that.
As for the first part of your question, about the growing influence of Islamic fundamentalists, I absolutely deny this. Yes, in earlier years, particularly between the first and the second wars, when Russia was seriously preparing for a new aggression, it tried to play on Islamic feelings, and not without success. But when the war started, our Mufti and all his associates defected to the Russian side pretty soon. So, it became absolutely clear who had been behind all these kidnappings, all these events between the two wars, both for Chechens and for foreign observers. Indeed, there had been some factor of the Islamic ideology directing the opposition. But it has disappeared after the treason of Mufti Kadyrov and his people in the beginning of the invasion. So, I do not divide the Chechen Resistance to Islamic Fundamentalists and democratic patriots. There are simply very diverse, interconnected and well-organised structures, which continue resistance to Russian occupation today.
Q.: There has been frequent claims in Russian media recently that Chechen rebels are being trained in Crimea, under the auspices of Crimean Tartars. Is this true? Do any Ukrainian citizens participate in the anti-Russian activities in Chechnya?
A. Zakaev: This is all the continuing propaganda for demonisation of the Chechens as a nation. First of all, of course, this is an attempt to divide the peoples of Ukraine and Chechnya. Historically, Ukrainians and Chechens gave vitally important support to each other many times. When Stalin was trying to starve Ukraine in early 1930s, many Ukrainians moved to Chechnya. During the Second World War, when the Chechen nation was deported to Kazakhstan, many Ukrainians were deported there too. In the 1990s, during our First war of independence, our Ukrainian brothers supported us. But today, and I know it for sure, there are no people from Ukraine participating in the Chechen Resistance. Today's Resistance in Chechnya and North Caucasus mostly consists of people from North Caucasus and Russia itself.
Q.: Geidar Dzhemal, a Russian Islamic figure, calls "to encourage migration of Caucasus people, such as Vainakh families, to Crimea" (see Profile No 26 of 3 July 2006) in order to strengthen the anti-Western (i. e. pro-Russian) elements in the peninsula. What do you think about these plans and about Mr. Dzhemal himself?
A. Zakaev: I can only say one thing about Geidar Dzemal with certainty: he does not make any statement without an approval from the Kremlin or the FSB. I have all the reasons to say this, because I know a lot about his past activities in Chechnya.
Let me remind you a bit of history. In 1988, when the Soviet Union deteriorated and the collapse of this empire was a matter of several years, the Islamic Revival Party was founded. This party came from a committee organised by the Congress of Muslims of the Soviet Union, and Geidar Dzhemal was a member of this committee. In those times, KGB began to play on the people's religious feelings, in order to skilfully use them in their prison of nations – the USSR. They had two simultaneous projects: Zhirinovsky's Liberal Democratic Party and this so-called Islamic Revival Party. Their leaders openly called to preserve the Soviet Union as a single state.
This "Islamic spiritual elite" of Russia, with Geidar Dzhemal as one of its leaders, was raised starting from those times for those very reasons. Before and during the First war, Geidar Dzhemal called the Chechens to cancel their Declaration of State Sovereignty and to sign the 1992 Federal Treaty of Russia. Between the two wars, Dzhemal visited Chechnya many times, trying to propagate his ideas among the least educated part of the population. He practically usurped the role of a Mufti, making provocative statements about a jihad against the whole Christian world.
I would like to tell both to Ukrainians and to Tartars: we very much respect the choice of every nation. The Tartars have their own political and spiritual leaders. The less they follow advice of Geidar Dzhemal, the less they co-operate with this man, the better it will be for the Tartar people and their leaders.
|
